Tough Tilt DualCopter

by MESA RC | March 6, 2015 | (16) Posted in Just Fun

 

To the FliteTest Community,

The MESArcFF team was fortunate enough to receive two tough tilts from Josh and the FliteTest gang a couple weeks back and we were planning to create a tricopter and Dragonfly setup with the equipment when it was mentioned by a couple students that we should try a Dualcopter instead since we had never ventured in a multirotor like this before.  It was a lot of fun trying to figure this copter out since our initial finding of info on the build was nowhere to be found.  We did however come across this forum on Rcgroups that made the process super easy, we highly recommend that if you plan to create a dual copter to read and follow this forum.  With the exception of personal setups and tech differences, he was spot on in terms of directions.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2187965 

So a HUGE thank you goes out to Robertoho for creating this forum, you rock man! In terms of parts we highly recommend the KK2 board, stand TX and RX, standard 450 size multirotors, the TOUGH TILT, and the servos FliteTest sells with them.  It was very cheap to construct since it doesn't require too many parts, and the frame was a used Heli we got from a donated mall copter.

Here is Jake working on the original setup before switching over to the new equipment.

 

The Dualcopter performance is pretty much just a hover, however, they look so cool!

Tough Tilts were the way to go for this project, very easy for the students to work with.

 

A big thanks goes out the Robertoho for creating the forum and FliteTest for suppling the group with those Tough Tilts.

For more information about the program; http://www.mesarcfoamfighters.com/

Thank you,

The MESArcFF Team

- Find this article & others like it at www.FliteTest.com -

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COMMENTS

x3mperformance on March 7, 2015
Nice project, And a sleek design,.
I was just thinking....
Would this technologi make it possible to build a twin rotor chopper in Chinook style, without the very advanced dual swash plate, pitch mechanism......?

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MESA RC on March 8, 2015
You know we have played around with that idea, would have to play around with all the controls to see if it can be done, I am thinking we might be limited to what the KK2 board gives us on the DualCopter setup.
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x3mperformance on March 10, 2015
KK board is flexible, try making contact to Rolf Bakke, the German guy who is the inventor of the board.
Or someone in the community...

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alibopo on March 7, 2015
Great work and quite fascinating to watch in the air. Strangely balance isn't such a difficult issue, Gravity will make the true centre of gravity 'automatically' drop beneath the line of the support boom the motors are mounted on. Sometimes your craft might LOOK like it's slightly 'off balance' but that will just be because it's orientate itself to be physically balanced. Your main issue was positive feedback from a pendulum effect, partly due to the lack of weight in the 'vehicle' and a lack of inertia/dampening. More inertia and the body of the craft could resist rotation and better follow the lead of the motors - the downside is that when you get up to speed and start to slow, the inertia component will keep the vehicle moving and rotate it around the motor boom introducing a whole new pile off orientation and control problems. Larger props could introduce some gyroscopic damping, but one of the simplest solutions would be a flat panel on the end of a boom set at right angles to the motor crossbar, a bit like an aircraft horizontal stabiliser. This would dampen some of those oscillations and allow more aggressive flying. Add a control surface linked-in to a self-levelling function and this could provide active resistance to the rotation created by acceleration and deceleration. Bottom line, there's loads of great physics and engineering problems in this design for your students to explore! Thanks for sharing.
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MESA RC on March 8, 2015
Thank for taking the time to make such a great comment, all this has been present to Jake and he will have the challenge now of making sense with it in designing a frame to accomodate all the tips presented. Should be fun for him! Thank you Thank you!
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danield on March 11, 2015
May be an accelerometer, or gyro could help the pendulum effect.
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sailorJohn on March 7, 2015
What a terrific video to be able to add to these kids résumé. I wish the schools in my area had the benefit of a similar program.
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MESA RC on March 8, 2015
Thank you for comment Sailor John!
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LordVader on March 7, 2015
Now that is some cool stuff. You could use this platform to build Josh and David's Avatar dual copter Scorpion. Love what you guys are doing, keep it up. As always, thanks for sharing.
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MESA RC on March 8, 2015
For sure, however, thinking of creating our own style!
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Miracle Air on March 7, 2015
This is incredible. I've never seen a dualcopter anywhere, and you're building them with middle school kids! I'm a fellow teacher and I run a very modest RC club. To see what you've done with yours is an inspiration to me. Well done!
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MESA RC on March 8, 2015
Thank you for the comment Miracle Air, challenge challenge challenge, never let them give up on challenging themselves in the hobby, no limitations. Thank you!
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HarleyRev on March 7, 2015
Hah ! that looked fun ! and outa control ! Great concept , thanks for sharing .

I like the look of that thing ! very cool looking . Makes me want to build one , lol .

Simply as a selfish suggestion , I would like to see you all go ahead and turn it into a tri coptor now. I think it would be awesome to see it fly thru the air in a controlled manner and you would still have a very unique looking build.

Makes me want to look for an old coptor at a flea market and build a tri coptor now.

Thanks again .
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MESA RC on March 8, 2015
Great idea, if it proves not to work in future testing, I bet that is what he does!
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eagle4 on March 7, 2015
David Winderstal made an Avatar gun ship during his time at Flitetest. Would be good to check out his video on it. It was amazing.
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MESA RC on March 8, 2015
Ohh we checked out, especially for placement in everything. However, it seemed like we performed the same, so a redesign in a platform and placement of parts is in order.
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doc_mat on March 8, 2015
Keeping the tilts where they are, a third motor in the back in a tricopter configuration would probably help your pendulum problem... Granted, it wouldn't be much of a dual copter anymore, but having the tilts where they are would still give it that effect... Just don't know if anyone has a KK2 board that can do that... I have the KK2, but I'm still waiting to mount it
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Epitaph on March 9, 2015
I've always been fascinated by duocopters, not sure why exactly. But one thing that does make it hard to handle in forward flight is that when the tilts move, there is nothing to stop the fuselage from moving too. Would it be possible to take that "4th pusher motor on a tricopter" idea with a reversing capable ESC to control forward and backward flight and leave the toughtilts and servos to handle just the stabilization?

Anyway, great build everyone, keep up the good work!!
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Lobstar on March 9, 2015
Could you reduce the pendulum motion by moving the tough tilts inboard and then adding a third servo with a counter weight moving in the opposite direction. Maybe make a sled for the battery and have the servo move the batter forward or back which will pull the CG. The third servo could also be moved with response from the gyro instead of in reaction to stick input.
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tmyska on March 10, 2015
That's really awesome, I wish a class that that had been offered when I was in school.

I was thinking about this last night, why is there a pendulum effect with a dualcopter but not with chinooks? Do they just have more advanced avionics, or does it have to do with the control setup.
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earthsciteach on March 10, 2015
I'd say your major problem is, KK2. Cool concept! Wonder if another controller would handle that better. I have had nothing but poor experiences with the KK boards.
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jswgames on March 11, 2015
This thing looks awesome. Two suggestions based on my limited understanding of the forces involved here. I've seen a video where a guy built a dual copter that he called a t copter. Short arm on top with motors mounted on servo controlled hinges and a long bar down of the middle with the battery on the end. It seems like the closer your center of gravity is to the plane of the rotors the more pronounced the pendulum effect is.

Also everybody builds these like the avatar gunship. I'd like to see one built more like a chinook. Where the tilts control side to side stability and forward or backward motion is controlled by rotor speed. Should be fairly simple. It'll look odd, but I bet it would fly well.

Maybe one day my wife will let me drop the cash necessary to get into this stuff. ( I'm literally starting at zero, no tx no chargers no anything except a tiny hubsan x4) any suggestions on how to convince her would be appreciated.
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PlanesAndThings1 on October 14, 2020
so... This is the same thing as a Bicopter?

Challenge: Monocopter!
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Tough Tilt DualCopter